Season 03, Episode 05: Ayelén
Living decoloniality, practical examples of decolonial
re-existence through the aid sector, a podcast by Carla Vitantonio
with the support of the Center for Humanitarian Leadership.
Welcome back to a new episode of Living Decoloniality.
I am Carla Vitantonio and the sounds and noises you hear in the background
are from the city where I live and work, Havana, Cuba.
Have you ever thought that the way we experience the various steps of our life,
Childhood, adolescence, adulthood, seniority, and what we expect from people
who are undergoing one of these stages are also influenced by a colonial gaze?
In season 2, Karishma Shafi gave an example when she said that during the program
of fellowship that her organization, One Future Collective, was organizing,
they realized that putting an age limit to participants was not only discriminatory,
but influenced by the traditional dominant Western culture that wants learning
and development to be limited to childhood and youth.
So, they withdrew age limits and started to accept that people
my experience life and its stages in very diverse ways.
Today’s guest speaks from Mexico, her name is Ayelen.
We met on LinkedIn and I was immediately interested by her idea and field of research
and it struck me as something I had never reflected upon.
As you’ll hear soon, Ayelen is also looking at the way we perceive life stages
and at how such way is often impacted by the colonial gaze.
Ayelen focuses on childhood, but lets hear an introduction.
I am a Ayelen Amigo, I am from Argentina, but I have been living in Mexico for seven years.
I consider myself a person in constant exploration.
I like to learn new things and to question what I know.
I like to read, do yoga, go for walks in nature, or listen to music.
I love to cook and eat and I love plants.
I have a PhD in feminist studies and in my research I have analyzed the intersectionality
between feminism and childhood studies because I feel that there was a gap
between both fields of study.
I like how Ayelen did not limit her introduction to her professional titles,
but allowed us to have a little look at her private space and identity,
because I am convinced that this is also part of what helps her in her life and research.
I framed the second question in this way:
Can you tell us something about coloniality and childhood?
For several years I have been studying coloniality in relation to children
and the first thing I could identify is that there have been few analysis linking these two elements
as if coloniality were something unrelated to girls, boys and children in general.
But the reality is that the different colonialities,
the coloniality of being, of power, of knowledge, of gender,
have impact the lives of children denying their character as subjects of rights and knowledge.
First of all, we must understand that we live in an adult-centric world
that is a world in which adults are those who have power, those who know,
those who have the capacity to do things, those who are recognized as having rights.
And just because we are over 18 years of age and in contrast,
children are considered incapable, irrational, being who cannot do things.
Talking specifically to the link between colonialities and children, for example,
when we speak of coloniality of power, we speak of hierarchical processes of social organization
in which it was established that there are certain people who,
because of the biological characteristic they possess, deserve to be placed in higher levels of power.
And although the coloniality of power has been understood on the basis of racial hierarchies,
the social organization that places adults in a space of superiority in relation to children
could be seen as part of this coloniality because it’s based on purely biological issues linked to age.
The understanding of children as people who are not yet adults
and they are positioned on the weaker side of a power scale allows us to extrapolate the notion of coloniality of power
to the link between adults and children.
The coloniality of power in relation to children is sustained on the basis of adult superiority and privilege.
On the other hand, we have the coloniality of knowledge which tells us that there are certain valid, recognized knowledge
and certain appropriate ways of knowing.
These questions, the knowledge and ways of knowledge production of those considered marginalized
and considered non-rational population groups among which are children.
And the marginalization of children from the processes of knowledge creation,
the consideration of their knowledge as invalid and their identification as subaltern groups,
implies their subordination to processes of control, domination and monitoring in order to ensure their correct development.
The presentation of adult white men as supreme examples of rationality and wisdom has implied the denial of children’s knowledge.
But behind this epistemological denial lies an ontological denial, the denial of children as subject.
Not only is their knowledge invalidated but their very existence as person is called to question.
With the idea that tells us that children are the future which is a really widespread idea,
what we are really saying is that they have no present.
We look at children from their condition of possibility and not of reality.
That is as beings who will eventually become adults but whose current existence is irrelevant and unimportant.
And there is another coloniality that I think is important to mention which is a concept that I created as part of my doctoral research,
which is the coloniality of age.
The internalization that children have made about their place in the world, about what they can or cannot do based on their age,
is a consequence of processes that have actively placed them in this place of sub-alternity.
The discourses of the adult world that establish due ty to be according to age,
their roles assigned to children, the possibilities of action and the obligations regarding inaction that are established from adulthood,
are part of this coloniality.
Age does construct sub-alternities and what I believe it is necessary to understand is that the consideration of age
as an axis of domination constitutive of adult-centric world and the hierarchy of the adult world over the world of children,
derived as Manfred Liebel mentions from European ways of understanding childhood that were extended as a consequence of the conquest.
Age was not always understood as an axis of social organization and domination and children were not always seen as weak and capable in need of protection
and that is why I believe we can speak of the coloniality of age as a new coloniality that is intersected with those already mentioned.
I’m impacted by the idea that Ayelen brings forward of coloniality of age.
Age does construct sub-alternity and the way we look at it can deprive certain beings of their agency and rights.
I asked Ayelen to tell us more about her approach to this and her decolonial practices.
In processes with children I believe that we have to rethink many things, the ways we have of interacting with them,
the way we understand the role in society.
I think that we need to disarm many preconceptions and understand that children are people with rights.
And something that has been very useful to me in this process is to work with children to approach them from the pedagogy of tender pedagofia de la ternura.
As Alejandro Cussianovich, its creator, puts it, the pedagogy of the ternura is not only a discourse and expression,
it’s a practice with an enormous renewing potential.
And the potential for renewal that this pedagogy proposes, arise from the establishment of a pedagogical relationship based on dialogue,
respectful, transparent, close and understanding dialogue, as simple and as complex as that.
The pedagogia de la ternura is presented as an approach with respectful and holistic view of childhood that takes into account not only the student’s knowledge,
but also their daily experiences, emotions and interpersonal relationships.
This pedagogy has to do with a capacity for respectful affection with a relationship marked by the emotional, affective component by feelings as a way of establishing and emancipating bond.
When we work from the pedagogy of tenderness, joy, tenderness and happiness are recovered as elements of resistance.
And in this sense, this pedagogy is recovered as a pedagogy of joy and enthusiasm as a critical pedagogy, as a pedagogy of possibility.
It’s not something naive. It’s a pedagogy of revolution because love and affection can be revolutionary.
As Santiago Morales and Gabriela Magistris said, “Without true listening, no communication is possible and for this, we need to respect children, respect their dreams, their worries, their fears, their knowledge, their proposals, their difficulties.”
“Without underestimating them.” And this is my invitation to generate processes of dialogue and respectful listening with children, processes that recognize their human condition.
The pedagogy of tenderness for a respectful and holistic approach to childhood.
Joy as an element of resistance and love as a revolution. As decoloniality is about practices and practices are mainly relational, could we think of being inspired by this suggestions throughout our decolonial turn?
You listen to living decoloniality, practical examples of decolonial re-existence through the aid sector. I am Carla Vitantonio and you can reach me through my Spotify and Spreaker channels or through my Instagram, Carla Vitantonio.
This podcast was deliberately recorded with minimum technical equipment trying to preserve as much as possible the feelings and intentions of those who participated.
If you liked it, please subscribe and share it through your network. Living decoloniality was produced in partnership with the Center for Humanitarian Leadership. The logo is a present from Eugenio Nittolo.